Compatibility of Scrivener on Win10 with MS OneDrive?

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vajra
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Sat May 12, 2018 8:14 pm Post

Hi all. I'm new and based in Ireland, Recently retired ex technical manager from a management consulting background - with interests in writing and woodworking.

I've just bought and installed Scrivener and worked through the tutorial.

A first book is under way, I've gathered several hundred flashes of insight recorded as separate short notes from a few lines to a few pages in length in random order/as they arrived in a single Word document.

The thinking a this stage is to utilise the corkboard function to summarise and/or re-arrange the order of the notes - to group them into topics to assist in planning the structure and content of the book.

I'd appreciate some help with two questions:

1. I run MS OneDrive on a good spec laptop as a part of a Microsoft business subscription, and wonder if it is safe to use it to back up Scrivener?

Caveats or must dos? e.g. is backing up to something like a hard drive also recommended? Risk of conflicts/crashes/consequent loss of material?

DropBox seems to be more frequently mentioned, but I'd rather not run a second cloud storage service and need to stick with the MS service for other reasons.

2. I thought I saw a how to somewhere for how to import and break a long Word document down into multiple separate documents by inserting a specified symbol at the start of each section. Can't seem to find it now though.

Was I dreaming? Can anybody point to where that might have been?

Thank you

ian
Last edited by vajra on Sun May 13, 2018 11:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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lunk
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Sat May 12, 2018 8:17 pm Post

You mean OneDrive?
No, it’s not safe for your live project. You can store your zip:ed backups on OneDrive but preferably not the live, active project.
I am a user, writing non-fiction and science, using:
* Mac Scrivener 3 on a Macbook 12”, MacBook Pro 13”, and iMac 27”, all running the latest MacOS
* iOS Scrivener 1 on an iPhone 8, iPad Air 9.7”, and iPad Pro 12.9”, all running the latest iOS

va
vajra
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Sun May 13, 2018 12:54 pm Post

Hi L. My caution follows from noting that between anti virus software, MS Windows (especially) and other application updates there's seemingly a lot of traffic on the web connection - and signs that they don't get on very well together.

I've seen Word running live on OneDrive crash several times, with the common factor typically being that some sort of updating is going on in the background. Windows update seems to be the worst offender, it seems to kick in with no indication of anything going on and to more or less shoulder aside anything else using the connection.

Scrivener seemed a likely candidate for similar disruption given it's complexity. It's awkward enough to recover Word when this happens...

Do you have any particular issues in mind/to watch out for when you say that OneDrive is not safe for a live project?

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lunk
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Sun May 13, 2018 4:34 pm Post

There is a whole article in the knowledge base about how to deal with cloud drives.

The recommendation is to use Dropbox if you want to keep your live project on a cloud drive because the dropbox app keeps updating every change you do to any file, and this is important because a Scrivener project is a folder, not a single file.
I am a user, writing non-fiction and science, using:
* Mac Scrivener 3 on a Macbook 12”, MacBook Pro 13”, and iMac 27”, all running the latest MacOS
* iOS Scrivener 1 on an iPhone 8, iPad Air 9.7”, and iPad Pro 12.9”, all running the latest iOS

va
vajra
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Mon May 14, 2018 12:00 am Post

Pardon the typo L,

I meant OneDrive as you thought.

I've seen the OneDrive Advisory in the Windows FAQ, it seems to suggest that Windows 7 is OK with OneDrive, that there was a problem in subsequent windows versions (down to some system of file handling that messed up auto saving), but that all was OK in Windows 10 again.

I'm on Win 10, but was wondering (since DropBox seems to be favoured) if there might not still be funnies? I guess it comes down to whether anybody is looking in that is running this combo.

As before I'm very reluctant to switch to DropBox given that I'm stuck with OneDrive as a consequence of my Office Business subscription...

Ji
JimRac
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Mon May 14, 2018 12:23 am Post

This person who started this post has been storing live Scrivener projects on OneDrive/Win10 without issue, so that is a positive sign. (But not for project sharing.) http://www.literatureandlatte.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=51656&hilit=onedrive

The main question though is what is your goal?

If you want to *share* projects between devices, then DropBox is still currently the platform considered most reliable. You really don't want to break your project.

If you are just trying to *backup* your projects to the cloud, then store your live project on your local hard drive and specify your OneDrive folder as the location for your zipped project backups. You gain the advantage of cloud backups, without any risk.

HTH,
Jim

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vajra
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Mon May 14, 2018 10:57 pm Post

Hi Jim. Thank you for that.

My interest at this stage is simply to back my work up to the cloud using OneDrive - in addition to saving to the laptop's C drive and perhaps occasionally to a separate back up hard drive. (to be sure to be sure to be sure... : ) )

I don't travel much, and even if I do bring the same laptop with me.

This piece came up since my last post in a search, it more or less sets out what you described which makes sense: https://www.mombehindthecurtain.com/bac ... ner-files/

The bit that's nice and which I hadn't appreciated is that I can both save work on to the laptop's normal C drive, and also to the cloud using auto backup. Also that given the multiple cloud back ups it wouldn't be the end of the world if one backup went sick.

As above I've seen OneDrive stumble a bit just saving a Word document to the cloud, and was having visions of having to locate Scrivener within the OneDrive folder as with normal working folders - and repeatedly saving in that situation.

The ability to configure a separate back up to the cloud as well as having the work on the laptop's drive side steps this.

Trying to synchronise more than one device on top of all that does indeed sound like a recipe for trouble....

Thank you, time to try it...

Ji
JimRac
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Tue May 15, 2018 12:14 am Post

Vajra, I am 100% in alignment with the methods discussed in that article, it's a good one.

Sounds like you've got it figured out, so you should be fine.

Hope you enjoy using Scrivener, and best of luck with your writing!
Jim

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rdale
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Tue May 15, 2018 1:06 pm Post

vajra wrote:2. I thought I saw a how to somewhere for how to import and break a long Word document down into multiple separate documents by inserting a specified symbol at the start of each section. Can't seem to find it now though.

Was I dreaming? Can anybody point to where that might have been?

When you initially import your word document, you can specify a set of characters that separate each section of text that you want to be its own document. Once you've created a project, use the "Import and Split" function under the File menu to import the document, specifying the separator string.

But if you've already imported it into a new project, you can just use the Split function under the Documents menu.

If you haven't started it yet, I recommend that you open the Tutorial project (Help->Interactive Tutorial) and start going through it. It'll cover a number of features and hopefully give you some ideas on how to make use of them for your project.
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vajra
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Tue May 15, 2018 7:34 pm Post

Thanks Jim. It's a first book, so I've no idea if anybody is likely to want to read it. The urge developed to try though, so it's a case of giving it a go and seeing what emerges.

The creative process is interesting. As an engineer and ex management and manufacturing consultant I can write in a highly analytical/technical style.

I also meditate a lot, and know from experience that the creativity comes through when the intellect steps aside and allows the intuitive side a voice.

The latter works fine captured as the long series of snatches and notes mentioned. It's going to be interesting to see what's there when it's all pulled together and some overall structure applied. : )

Thanks for the steer too R, I've been through the tutorial and could remember seeing what you describe - but couldn't find it and started to wonder if I'd seen it in another piece elsewhere. Your giving me the terminology means I can look it up easily.

ian.

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vajra
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Thu May 17, 2018 7:25 pm Post

An afterthought to this thread, and a caution.

It's just struck me that it's perhaps unwise to talk of compatibility of Scrivener or not with OneDrive without specifying whether we're talking of OneDrive for Business that comes with an Office 365 for Business subscription, or the OneDrive that comes with Windows.

The point is that there are fundamental differences between the applications - which (guessing) may well translate into differences in how compatible each is with Scrivener.

The former is basically a workplace solution primarily designed to facilitate teams in distributed locations in working on shared documents, and requires an MS Business/office 365 for Business subscription. The latter is basically as I understand it stand alone cloud storage.

One Drive for Business apparently stores the master copy on the Cloud. The Windows version it's said in some places stores the master on the PC, but it also offers an option to select whether or not a copy is held on the PC as well as on the Cloud (or not to save space) which synchronised later. (maybe it switches the master to the Cloud or something?)

I'm struggling to access definitive information on whether the One Drive for Business version also stores a copy on the PC. I do seem to be able to open files on the PC with no internet connection, but am a little cautious in case it's somehow only temporary.

The situation is complicated by the fact that Microsoft for marketing reasons refer to both as OneDrive - even though the technical underpinnings of the two packages are very different - so it's always a struggle to decide which a support page relates to. The business version apparently amounts to a re-branding of a previous application called SharePoint.

This 2yr old piece describes and compares them: https://en.share-gate.com/blog/onedrive ... difference

I'm on OneDrive for Business, and spent literally weeks trying to get it to work. It's often very difficult to tell when you read a support page which package it applies to. I thought I was doing something daft/missing stuff, but in the end it turned out that I was on the wrong support pages.

Also that the problem I was experiencing in launching the application even when I was doing what I was supposed to were caused by a deeply buried preference setting in Windows which meant it didn't work as it should have - it took several MS techs running a remote access programme and escalation of the problem to find it.

Anyway - just thought I'd mention that....
Last edited by vajra on Fri May 18, 2018 11:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Ji
JimRac
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Thu May 17, 2018 11:56 pm Post

Vajra,

Good point about the different OneDrive versions. My guess is that most if not all of the users who experienced issues while sharing Scrivener projects over OneDrive were using the consumer/standalone cloud version.

That said, if someone came here asking, "Is it safe to use SharePoint to *share* Scrivener projects?" the answer they'd likely get is, "No one knows. Try it and let us know how it goes. And be sure to take frequent backups."

Similarly, if someone was considering SharePoint as a place to *store* (not share) their Scrivener projects, in my opinion, the same answer probably applies. It's uncharted territory.

Just my $.02.
Jim

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vajra
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Fri May 18, 2018 11:30 pm Post

Ta Jim.

It seems also that the vast majority of the documentation/help pages on the web relate to the Windows version of OneDrive too.

As an engineer I get frustrated with this sort of stuff. There's so many hidden subtleties in how these applications function, but most of the time the help pages are 50% marketing and hence dumbed down.

So we get to find out about problems the hard way....

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devinganger
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Sat May 26, 2018 2:22 am Post

Let me help clarify; I'm an IT professional that works with OneDrive every day.

First, what OneDrive was 2 years ago and what it is now is very different. OneDrive (consumer) was the replacement for Windows Live Sync, which was a lovely tool. OneDrive for Business comes out of the acquisition of Groove (the file sync utility, not the music player on Windows 10). The big difference between them is the backing store in the cloud -- the consumer version backing store is as far as I am aware not specified, but the OneDrive for Business storing backend is really a personal SharePoint Online site collection. So OneDrive for Business is really SharePoint Online sync.

Microsoft has steadily worked to bring them closer together. Indeed, the current OneDrive client engine in Windows 10 will handle either variant -- I believe the sync protocol is roughly the same for both. Both will create copies of synced documents on the local drives *if configured to* (one of the past updates in Windows 10 re-introduced the ability to selectively sync full files or just pointers to files). I can't imagine Scrivener's file format getting along with the SharePoint back-end, though.

EDIT: The only way I would personally want to store a Scrivener project in a SharePoint document library is the single .ZIP backup file. I would NOT want to invite SharePoint to ruffle its fingers through the folder/file structure, all of those delicate XML and RTF files for it to mangle...
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Mon Aug 13, 2018 5:49 pm Post

Hey, another interested OneDrive user, right now just for backup of all critical files on my two laptops. One is Windows 7 and the other Windows 10

So as I understand the process, you copy a backed up Scrivener ZIP on the OneDrive, put it locally on another machine, work on it, back up and zip again back out to OneDrive, then pull that down on the original machine and overwrite the local files?



Laptop 1-->backup ZIP in Scrivener to OneDrive-->download ZIP to Laptop 2 and expand in working location-->Backup on Laptop 2 to OneDrive-->download ZIP to Laptop 1 and expand OVER TOP the original working location.

and repeat.

Correct?

Wish this would just be updated to work seamlessly...