[LH543|LH2773] Change in page width? Font size?

si
simeva
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Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:05 pm Post

In 1.9, my text looks like this:
Capture1.JPG
Capture1.JPG (32.37 KiB) Viewed 1869 times

..and in the beta like this:
Capture2.JPG
Capture2.JPG (31.85 KiB) Viewed 1869 times

The first screenshot is correct - ie the text width is actually 8 inches when printed. So what is happening here?

si
simeva
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Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:45 am Post

Just to clarify this..
The first screenshot above shows the file in Scriv 1.9.
I load the same project into Scriv 3, and it looks like this:
Capture.JPG
Capture.JPG (38.3 KiB) Viewed 1837 times
I then change the page zoom from 100% to 75% as recommended by tiho here, to restore the original look of the document on screen, and the outcome is the second screenshot above. Now the font appears to be the same size on screen, but it has been changed relative to the page width.

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MimeticMouton
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Sat Mar 10, 2018 3:12 pm Post

I think this is mainly an issue with the ruler not scaling properly with the editor zoom. There is also bug whereby using the Print Current Document function seems to be enlarging the text size, so that may be affecting what you're seeing if you're checking the results with that; you'll get a better result printing the current document from Compile. Both of these bugs are filed.
Jennifer Hughes
(MM for short)

br
brianhenrygray
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Tue Jun 26, 2018 4:34 pm Post

MM, this bug is several months old and, to be honest, is killing my OCD. LOL. Is there a fix for it yet? I am running the latest beta.

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brianhenrygray
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Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:09 pm Post

Just bumping this up because of this bug. Does anyone have a response? Is it being addressed? I can literally only get an average of 9 words on a line. Doesn't matter what view I am in. And adjusting the text width to anything over 650 px does nothing at all.

rw
rwfranz
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Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:18 am Post

simeva wrote:In 1.9, my text looks like this:
Capture1.JPG
..and in the beta like this:
Capture2.JPG
The first screenshot is correct - ie the text width is actually 8 inches when printed. So what is happening here?


1. What's your zoom level? (View -> Zoom)
Altering the zoom level can change (at particular zoom levels) how much goes in that line. Yes, that's a bug, and I haven't reported it yet, but I'm about to. Zoom shouldn't change line content, but it does.

2. The default font size appears to have changed. It appears you're using Courier font of some sort (monospaced), and I count about ~8 characters per inch in the first one, which is 9-point type. But I count ~6 characters per inch in the second one, which is 12-point type.

Options -> Editing -> Formatting -> click Aa button, see what font size is your default.

I hope that helps -- it may still be a bug of some sort, but it does look as though the font sizes are different.

si
simeva
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Tue Sep 18, 2018 11:16 am Post

tbh I had so much trouble with this beta that I uninstalled it. :cry:

But in answer to your questions...
1)
simeva wrote:Just to clarify this..
The first screenshot above shows the file in Scriv 1.9.
I load the same project into Scriv 3, and it looks like this:
Capture.JPG I then change the page zoom from 100% to 75% as recommended by tiho here, to restore the original look of the document on screen, and the outcome is the second screenshot above. Now the font appears to be the same size on screen, but it has been changed relative to the page width.

2) Maybe. There's another beta due out at the end of the month and I might give it another go then. I'll report back if I do.

si
simeva
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Fri Oct 05, 2018 5:36 pm Post

Perhaps this shows the problem more clearly.

First, here is the file in Scriv 1.9.8.
01.jpg
01.jpg (118.59 KiB) Viewed 464 times
Scrivener reports it is using Courier 12pt, In the first line of text there are 62 characters over 8 inches, according to the Scrivener ruler, which means there are ~8 chars per inch.

However, when this file is compiled and printed, this line is in fact just over 6 inches long on the page, This means that there are 10 characters per inch - which is the correct pitch for Courier 12pt.

Now here is exactly the same file loaded into Scrivener 3, (beta 10)
02.jpg
02.jpg (146.99 KiB) Viewed 464 times
Again, Scrivener reports it is using Courier 12pt, This line has 43 characters over ~7.33 inches, according to the Scrivener ruler, which means again that there are ~8 chars per inch.

Any ideas what is going on?

I don't mind about the odd behaviour of the Scrivener ruler in the first case, because I get what I need, which is a properly printed page, and a screen that shows what that page will look like.

But I do mind that Scrivener 3 completely changes the page layout of the file (I haven't tackled compiling and printing from the beta yet). I am loading exactly the same files into the two programs.

rw
rwfranz
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Sat Oct 06, 2018 7:32 pm Post

*note. Images excluded for brevity.
** and a bunch snipped
simeva wrote:Perhaps this shows the problem more clearly.

First, here is the file in Scriv 1.9.8.
01.jpg
Scrivener reports it is using Courier 12pt, In the first line of text there are 62 characters over 8 inches, according to the Scrivener ruler, which means there are ~8 chars per inch.

However, when this file is compiled and printed, this line is in fact just over 6 inches long on the page, This means that there are 10 characters per inch - which is the correct pitch for Courier 12pt.

Now here is exactly the same file loaded into Scrivener 3, (beta 10)
02.jpg
Again, Scrivener reports it is using Courier 12pt, This line has 43 characters over ~7.33 inches, according to the Scrivener ruler, which means again that there are ~8 chars per inch.

[...]

But I do mind that Scrivener 3 completely changes the page layout of the file (I haven't tackled compiling and printing from the beta yet). I am loading exactly the same files into the two programs.


Compiling is still not finished, per the release notes for 2.9.0.10.

However, after looking up a few things, I think the two programs use decidedly different algorithms for typography.

When I use 12-point Courier New in a word processor (LibreOffice Writer), it gives 10 characters per inch, and when I use 10-point, it gives 12 characters per inch. Courier is designed to mimic a typewriter, and 12-point mimics the "Pica" typewriter settings. 10-point mimics "Elite" typewriter settings.

1.9.x is showing the correct character size for 12-point type at 1 character per pica [cpp] (6 cpi, characters per inch), but not for 12-pt Courier's standard letter spacing, which is 10 cpi, or about 1.6667 cpp.

2.9.x is not showing anything correctly for Courier (It shows about 8 cpi, or 1.333 cpp, so it comes closer to 10 cpi than did 1.9.x, but it's still not correct). And for me, well, see below; I get about 7.5 cpi.

For me, enabling "High DPI mode" doesn't change anything, but you may experience different behavior (Options > General > Startup > Enable High DPI mode (checkbox)).

In Scrivener, using Courier New 12 pt, I get about 30 characters in 4 inches (on the ruler) (7.5 cpi). Courier 12, however, should have 10 characters per inch horizontally, and 6 lines per inch vertically.

Zoom level DOES change character positioning relative to the ruler by a bit more than a pica, although it shouldn't. At 150%, I have 31 characters in 4 inches (on the ruler), not 30. At 300%, it's exactly 30, and some other zoom levels I have 29 and a little bit. I've posted a bug report about that, although I didn't use this example.

It's almost like it's using incorrect data for the fonts, or using the wrong numbers for picas per inch or points per inch, or the ruler is off.

It's a scaling bug of some sort.

The rest of this is informational for bug fixers.

I copied some text out of Scrivener (font: DejaVu Serif 14, no effects); Scriv says it's 8 3/4" or so. Pasted into Libreoffice, changed the font to Deja Vu Serif 14, and the word processor says it's about 6 5/8". Wordpad ALSO shows about 6 5/8.

Either the Scriv Ruler "inches" are 33% shorter than they should be, or the characters in Scriv are 33% wider than they should be.

For Courier 12 point, Scriv needs 33% more space (30 characters should be 3" exactly, and Scriv shows 4").
For Deja Vu Serif 14 point, it's about 33% more space (8 3/4 is ~33% wider than 6 5/8).
And I tried a random font from my library...
Bahnschrift 12-point uses 4 7/16" in LibreOffice and WordPad, and 6" in Scrivener (~33% wider in Scrivener).

Scrivener's ruler seems to be too short per unit by 25%, which would increase apparent length by 33%, or the characters are too wide on the display (by 33%). Either one is possible, but I'm betting on the ruler. Why? Word processors don't normally show picas. They show eighths. If Scriv's editor is showing eighths and using eighths, but is labeled as picas and "inches," but the "inches" are actually 3/4 of an inch long (6 apparent picas are 6/8 if those "pica" divisions are actually eighths), this would completely account for a 33% apparent scaling problem with fonts, where 30 characters barely fit into a space where 40 characters should.

Text that's 6 inches in every other word processor I have is 8" in Scrivener. No matter the font.

If we have an inch of text elsewhere, it's displayed as 8 picas in Scrivener, 1 1/3". So 8 eighths become 8 picas.

I hope that helps somebody fix this.